Talk:Alawites

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Alawite -> Alawism, Moved, 23 May 2007, no discussion
Alawism -> Alawites, Moved, 18 March 2008, no discussion
Alawites -> ‘Alawī, Moved, 6 December 2008, no discussion
‘Alawī -> ‘Alawi, Moved, 7 December 2008, no discussion
RM, ‘Alawi -> Alawites, No consensus, 13 December 2008, Talk:Alawi#Requested move 1
RM, ‘Alawi -> Alawi, No consensus, 4 April 2009, Talk:Alawi#Requested move 2
RM, ‘Alawi -> Alawi, Moved, 15 April 2010, Talk:Alawi#Requested move 3

‹ The template below (Copied) is being considered for merging with merged-from. See templates for discussion to help reach a consensus. ›

Text and/or other creative content from this version of Alawites in Turkey was copied or moved into Alawi with this edit on 22:33, 30 July 2011. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

Nusayris is not an insult

As far as I know Nusayris is not an insult

as the article say and repeat

the name was driven from Ibn Nusayr [1] Carnegie6 (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Muslims don't like to be called Muhammedans, that doesn't mean they don't like Muhammed. FunkMonk (talk) 01:37, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Carnegie6 @FunkMonk That term is mostly used by the detractors of the Alawites. One possible reason is that Nusayri has a very similar pronunciation to an expression that means "the little Christians", mocking their closeness to the Middle Eastern Christians and the observance of their religious holidays. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 03:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is used primarily as a slur, as the article itself notes (with reference). GhostOfNoMan 11:44, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

This topic is extremely incorrect. The Alawites do not believe imam Ali to be an incarnation of god 120.21.186.112 (talk) 13:54, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 15:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology - what does "Alawi" mean?

Ironically, the "Etymology" section of this article doesn't address the actual etymology of the word, only discussing alternative names and how and when it came to be used. It needs to explain what the word actually means. GeoEvan (talk) 06:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Minority with respect to what?"

@TheJoyfulTentmaker this is not an OR. I did not make that term and you don't get to negotiate the already established facts stated in RS. It's mentioned in the already cited refs that they are a minority. "With respect to whom?", that's not my issue, you can do give the refs a visit if you're curious to know. But I can tell you that probably "with respect" to the area they reside in, not to the "world"? And when you reverted my edit, you reverted other changes I made that were not problematic, so you might need to remove the problematic words manually without reverting the whole edit in the future in order not to make this an edit war. Thx. ☆SuperNinja2☆ TALK! 01:17, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Super ninja2 Thank you for starting this discussion. Unfortunately, I still don't see any of these changes as an improvement over the existing version. When a source refers to them as 'minority,' it is viewing them from the perspective of a single country. On Wikipedia, however, we need to consider a global viewpoint and adhere to WP:NPOV. I'd be interested to hear the rest of the community's thoughts. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 01:32, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~When a source refers to them as 'minority,' it is viewing them from the perspective of a single country. On Wikipedia, however, we need to consider a global viewpoint and adhere to WP:NPOV.~~

~~u cant be serious~~

I don't mind discarding the word "minority". I was just answering your question and explaining my point. ☆SuperNinja2☆ TALK! 01:43, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What we have to do is only to follow what the sources say, that is the very basis of Wikipedia. "Global viewpoint" is not mentioned in any guidelines, and seems like a home-cooked criterion, and is therefore irrelevant. Alawites are unanimously described as a minority group, in the sense that in all countries they exist in they are a religious minority. FunkMonk (talk) 01:43, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is true today. In the past, there were instances when they were not, such as in the Alawite State. So, my editorial judgement is that it is not the best short description we can use to describe this subject. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 01:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Again, what do the sources say? WP:verifiability, not truth. FunkMonk (talk) 02:54, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify, I think there is no factual controversy about either version under discussion: they both are true and verifiable. My point is maybe better explained in MOS:LEADREL rather than WP:NPOV. It is true that they are a minority sect in Syria and Turkey, they are an esoteric sect, and they are an ethnoreligious group. The question is, which of these should we emphasize in the lead and in the short description if we are writing an encyclopedia with a global audience? I acknowledge that this may be a matter of judgement at this point, so I'll leave the rest to the community consensus. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 05:02, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

and they are an ethnoreligious group

they are not an ethnoreligious group. they are arabs. ☆SuperNinja2☆ TALK! 05:16, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've restored it, as it is supported by the reference already in place:

While identifying as a branch of Shi’a Islam, Alawites are a distinct ethno-religious community with a long history in the region, dating back millennia.

Ref (under 'Historical context').

There are other more scholarly sources that refer to the group as 'ethnoreligious', too, e.g. Solidarity theologies and the (re)definition of ethnoreligious identities: the case of the Alevis of Turkey and Alawites of Syria. GhostOfNoMan 07:32, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Separate article for Alawism

Should we create a separate article for the religion of Alawism? For example, Judaism is the article for the religion of the Jewish ethnoreligious group. In the same way, Alawism should be the article for the religion of the Alawite ethnoreligious group. Thirurang Cherusskutty (talk) 01:54, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]